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November 20, 2006
Richard Dreyfuss on Civics and Impeachment
The actor Richard Dreyfuss (think Jaws, Mr. Holland's Opus, and What About Bob) spent the last two years studying civics and democracy at St Antonyís College at the University of Oxford (England). This past Friday night, Dreyfuss appeared on the season finale of HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, where his words literally silenced Maher and his usually uproarious audience:
Bill Maher (speaking of President Bush): And you think he should be impeached? I mean, what would that get you? Cheney as President?
Richard Dreyfuss: The two reasons that one would argue against impeachment are the Vice President and the Democratic Congress. But I'm not in favor of impeachment. I am in favor of the process. And I believe that unless the society stands against certain things, they will have endorsed certain things. Like torture, leaving the Geneva Convention...
Bill Maher: Right. That's well said.
Richard Dreyfuss (continuing): ...and lying to the Congress about the reasons for war. And once the Republicans are placed in the position of having to endorse torture, you've got a bad problem on your hands. And we do not realize that this is not about impeachment; it's about the other branches of the government doing their duty so that you don't hand off to a liberal or a conservative--the President--swollen powers when no one ever turns power away. No one ever says, "Oh no thank you - we're not going to use that." And so whoever gets to be President will use the power handed to this President. And we will rue that day unless we stand in some way against that, even in a minority report. Even if we; if you lose an impeachment hearing--whoever "we" are--then at least you have a body that says we stand against these things. And unless you do that, then you're for them.
Later in the show, Dreyfuss added the following (warning, it's long but well worth the read):
Richard Dreyfuss: That's the constancy that you can learn. You can actually learn the constancy of curiosity, and the constancy of outreach. You can learn that it is ok to keep asking the questions, and to be dissenters. And if you don't...if you're not taught it...then you don't know it. But we owe ourselves and the United States that we will pass off to our children to re-learn the tools of reason, logic, clarity, dissent, civility, and debate. And those things are the non-partisan basis of democracy, and without them, you can kiss this thing goodbye.
And what happens now in this partisan-addicted country of ours is that Democrats are afraid that if they send their kids to civics classes they might not come back Democrats. And Republicans are afraid their kids won't come back Republicans. But civics--the expertise needed to understand western enlightenment and civil liberties--is not something you're born with; you have to learn it.
And we teach our kids what we want them to know and we don't teach them what we don't want them to know. And that's not a conspiracy...that's human nature. And you have to---WE have to remember--that unless we teach the ideas that make America a miracle in government (a miracle that everyone knows is a miracle); unless we teach what that means, then it will go away in your kids' lifetime. And we will be a fable. We will be a tale told about this place that used to stand up for blah, blah, blah.
You have to teach it. You have to find the time and creativity to teach it in school. And if you don't, then you will lose it to fundamentalists of any stripe; you will lose it to stupidity; you will lose it to the darkness. And what this country represents is a tiny twinkle of light in a history of oppression and darkness and cruelty, and if it lasts for more than our lifetime or our kids' lifetime it is only due to the fact that we put some effort into teaching what it is.
The ideas of America--the idea of opportunity, mobility, freedom of thought, freedom of assembly--and if you don't teach it, it will go away and in the middle of the night; and when the towers fall, we will not say "what am I responsible for?" We will say, "Tell us what to do!"
Here, here...while I've never been one to side with Hollywood's self-anointed elite, Dreyfuss is right...in every single part of American life, would could all stand for a little more reason, logic, civility, dissent and debate!
Posted by Mikal at November 20, 2006 6:32 AM
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A gorgeous speech and a great argument.
I've been thinking a lot about the things have been taken from us over the past several years. Civic pride is at the top of that list for me. The symbols that represent American democracy are mistaken for the thing itself, and, as a result, nothing feels authentic. I catch myself thinking that people who express patriotism are either sheep or collusive in a great deception meant to rob us all of our voices. I'm suspicious. I've become embarrassed to be an American because of the company it puts me in.
We are losing our connection to the history and values that underpin the order by which we live. I want to pass on to our children a love of country, but I don't know how given the pervasive message to blindly obey. I want them to be questioners, but I don't want them to be as bitter and cynical as I am.
This is good. I think those of us who know what we are losing should stand up and speak out if only to the audience we have. We don't necessarily need to carry protest signs or lead/participate in a march. We need to stand up and speak out in our homes, with our family and friends, in our places of worship, in our schools, at work, wherever we have the chance. It isn't a matter of discussing politics or religion. It is a matter of discussing what made us as a country and how we need to go back to it. Melody says it well. So does Richard Dreyfuss. I pray that we will hear more of this.
Well, I've long aligned myself with my Hollywood elite friends and continue to agree with them as espoused here by Mr. Dreyfuss. Lee McD
'...swollen powers when no one ever turns power away. No one ever says, "Oh no thank you - we're not going to use that."'
A man once turned away power. With the backing of the entire continental army, including one of this nation's finest and most dedicated military officers--Benedict Arnold (though he failed to turn away a perceived opportunity at power)--General George Washington was offered the position of Supreme Dictator.
But that was a man who believed in something greater than himself. It's unfortunate that politics is such that only people interested in themselves get into it. It's so dirty, the rest of us can't stand to be near the stench of it.
One of the things Dreyfuss is trying to cure is
ignorant opinions like "it's so dirty, the rest
of us can't stand to get near the stench of it."
Lots of people do get involved and they do make
a difference; that was especially clear in places
like Montana, Virginia, and Missouri where we
just had close Senate races.
But overall, I am very negatively impressed
by Dreyfuss' initiative here. Despite 2 years'
study at wherever, he literally does not know
what he is talking about. We do NOT need more
DEBATE, or dissent. All the IMPORTANT things
are important precisely because they are NOT
debatable. He claims to oppose "indoctrination"
but MORE indoctrination is in fact exactly what
is needed. People need to know THE TRUTH.
THE TRUTH is a matter OF FACT and IS NOT
debatable. It is, however, spinnable, obscurable,
and supplanted by mythmeisters on a regular
basis, which Dreyfuss being in showbiz ought
to understand better than other people. And
he ought to be trying to cure it (like Michael
Moore is) instead of whining about process.
One of the things Dreyfuss is trying to cure is
ignorant opinions like "it's so dirty, the rest
of us can't stand to get near the stench of it."
Lots of people do get involved and they do make
a difference; that was especially clear in places
like Montana, Virginia, and Missouri where we
just had close Senate races.
But overall, I am very negatively impressed
by Dreyfuss' initiative here. Despite 2 years'
study at wherever, he literally does not know
what he is talking about. We do NOT need more
DEBATE, or dissent. All the IMPORTANT things
are important precisely because they are NOT
debatable. He claims to oppose "indoctrination"
but MORE indoctrination is in fact exactly what
is needed. People need to know THE TRUTH.
THE TRUTH is a matter OF FACT and IS NOT
debatable. It is, however, spinnable, obscurable,
and supplanted by mythmeisters on a regular
basis, which Dreyfuss being in showbiz ought
to understand better than other people. And
he ought to be trying to cure it (like Michael
Moore is) instead of whining about process.
Guess my nose is just more sensitive than yours George.
Sorry... just stewing in my huge pool of ignorance over here.
You don't really think that politics isn't corrupt do you? If I'm ignorant for thinking that, then I can't think of too many people who aren't.
Some of us are more sensitive than others. I can't stand corruption anymore than you could probably stand to be in a room filled with dead rotting carcasses. It makes me angry and is bad for my heart. You jump right in and have your day if it suits you. Me, I have no desire to be a medical examiner.
I am very impressed by Dreyfuss's position. However, I do remember my Civics classes, and, despite being an intellectually alive kid I found them infinitely boring. The reason is that we were repeatedly told obvious facts about the American governmental system and advised, as in religious education, that we must hold them sacred. Later in life, as a scholar, I learned what, in my view, could imprrove the situation: a serious comparative perspective. Possibly, this is impossible as long as the underlying impulse of curriculum making is to gain the approval of boards of education by rendering the civics curriculum patriotic. Nevertheless, there are strong arguments in favor of proportional representation; and, in France and other European countries institutions of higher education see student riots if fees go over a thousand dollars.
The strict limitation on campaign expenditures, and the rationing and equal distribution of TV time are well known. As long as civics is known as all the reasons the U.S. is the best it will be resisted not only by the new generation of students but also by their elders who had to tolerate it in their youth.
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